Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the Chroma Charge podcast.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Can you hear me?
Hello? Can you hear me?
Am I. Am I coming through?
Am I there?
One, two. Oh, there we go. It's good. Crazy to make fun of someone and then give them a mic, isn't it?
Especially when they're your son.
I've been really. I think a deep prayer from the team here, as I've lost my voice, was that my dad would step up into his worship mantle.
If you pressure enough, there is a phenomenal version of be bold, be strong. Ready for you.
I lift my eyes up to the mountains.
Oh, it's.
Yeah.
Some good memories. So we'll save that. That's how we're going to do ministry. I think it's important.
Gosh. I'll tell you what, if we want our social media to grow, that is one way to get. Get clicks.
Yeah, My, My voice is a bit gone, and although I'm kind of feeling this, it feels a little bit more manly. It's not really doing it for me when I sing, but stick with it for now.
It's such a privilege to be here.
For those of you that don't know, that was my dad. I think that's clear now.
I am a pastor's kid. And one of the fun things about being a pastor is, Kate, is you get to see everything.
You see the good and the bad, and you see the price leaders and pastors pay.
And it is a real privilege for me to stand here in a room of leaders and pastors to just say that I am so grateful, my generation is so grateful for men and women that would stand and proclaim Jesus.
And I do really feel privileged that we get to carry on in the footsteps of people that have just done so much. So I hope that, I guess what we're calling this this afternoon. I hope this afternoon would be really. All I want to do is perhaps speak into that father, son, pastor, worship leader gap and maybe translate a few things that I feel like I have the privilege of sitting in. Any of you that know my, Know my, My dad, both my parents, they are amazing leaders. And my, My. My parents have always had phenomenal worship people around them. When I grew up, I. I grew up amongst worshippers and worship leaders and. And it's actually really interesting because my mom is creative, but my dad was really an engineer. And it's not that he's not creative, but he's wired quite differently. And so it's really interesting that he has kind of always had creatives around him.
And part of my Role growing up and eventually becoming worship pastor is, like, has been to some extent translating the creatives to the wider church and helping us all be part of one family, that we are all part of one body.
So I just want to tell you a little bit of our story. A couple of things I think we've done that I think are good.
Then pray for you all and then get my healing at Communion. Amen.
So, yeah, I was born in Essex, Southend. Let's go.
It depends which room as to how much pride I show with that.
Let's go now. Let's be real. We know.
So I was born in Essex and I.
There can't be that many of you. Oh, okay.
Gosh, here we go. Let's go. They're waving from all over the place.
And I grew up around loads of musicians. And so from a young age it was, what instrument am I going to play? Am I going to be a drummer? Am I going to be a guitarist? Am I going to sing?
I remember being part of. We had, like, a little group in Southend called the Psalm Drummers. It's a cool name. And they had had all these, like, jembes and congas. And I remember playing those with this group of people. I used to love it. I used to think, when I'm older, I want to be like one of these brothers. They have, like, long hair, they take their congas everywhere.
It's just what I grew up in.
But it was. It was amazing. And I grew up in an environment where worship was everywhere and the presence of God was always in the place. And I knew that worship and the presence of God had a relationship, but I didn't necessarily know what it was.
And I loved it. I loved it. I loved playing. And my desire to worship and make music kept me tethered to the Lord. I felt like I could never separate the two.
And it was just the most wonderful environment to grow up in. I remember one night in one of those meetings where one of those drummers came up to me and he took me to a side and he was like, I want to pray for you that God would give you everything he's given me. And imparted this musical prayer.
And from that point on, I could pretty much just play drums. It was really interesting. I remember, like. I mean, I never really had any drum lessons.
I had amazing people around me. So hear me. It was like. And by current standards, I'm definitely not that strong, but. But I started. I grew up, started playing. And I think I said it yesterday, I used to come in with my dad early to church. Isn't it good when you have kids and you reward them by bringing them to church? That's what my parents did. They were smart and they would bring me into church and I would go and play drums in the kids worship.
Then I would come up and then as I got older I started to play guitar because my dad's exact words were, I want you to earn more money than a drummer.
Which is like mostly a joke.
And so there was a guitar teacher in the church, he was this amazing guitarist. So I had this little classical guitar. I used to have lessons from him and I used to leave crying because he was so mean to me.
Now he wasn't actually mean, I was just a bit sensitive, as will be a theme of all worship people. But I was extremely, extremely sensitive. And I used to play guitar and he would call me Boy. I think to this day he still hasn't referred to me by name.
And he would teach me how to play guitar. But he was brilliant. And he was not church good. He was good.
He was like one of the best and he could play so much and he really pushed me. And then when I moved to Leicester I got a guitar teacher here. He's a guy that lives nearby. He doesn't know the Lord yet but his mum has come to church a few times and if we can get the mum a praying mum finishes anyone off.
And I used to go to his house and he would teach me how to play guitar and he would show me all this music and I still don't think my mum has truly clocked the music he used to show me. It was Rage against the Machine. It was. Yeah, I know and you're kind of nodding but trust me, the lyrics.
And we would learn all this stuff and he really helped me get a lot better. He pushed me and I would take Christian stuff to him. I remember taking the old.
It was the red Salvation Is Here, Hillsong United album, taking him that and he would teach me all the bits of that. It was amazing. And I did school. I grew up, I never loved school.
And when I was old enough I went and studied in a college in London called icmp.
And I did like an intensive year of studying music, specifically guitar.
And it was funny actually because I did a year of A levels and I didn't do particularly well, if I'm really honest. I didn't try that hard. But I didn't get the world's most amazing results. So I had a choice. Do I do another year or do I go and study music. And I remember my mum was really on this, you need to go to this college, you need to go to this college, college. And a few people were like, you need to go to a Christian college. And my parents were like, don't go to a Christian college, Go to the best college. Go to the best music college. Don't go to one that's good for church, go to one that's good across the board, one of the best colleges. So I went to this college and it's really funny actually, because my mum was actually the one encouraging me, but behind the scenes, she was terrified that I was going to get hooked on drugs. So rich.
And so I went to this Christian college, this not Christian college. And it was amazing. The tutors were phenomenal. I mean, like, unbelievable players.
No professionality at all whatsoever. It's what you would imagine from, like, music college, but they were ridiculous. And every week we would go and play and that. We would get grilled every week, like, feedback and people would leave the room crying. Luckily not me, because I had my guitar teacher when I was young.
And I remember the first few days, one of the tutors said, hey, who in this room plays in church?
And a few of us put our hands up and he said, these are the ones you want to be in a band with because they'll be the best.
Really interesting because all of those music guys knew that the guys that grew up in church and playing played in church every week would be the best players. And if you survey the scene, the music scene across England, that is what you'll see. Stormzy's entire band are all church boys.
Like, so it's just really interesting. And so I went there for a long time. It was lots of fun.
They pushed me. I got better quickly.
I was very much one of the only real Christians in that space, which was really fun, really funny at times. I remember I made all these friends with all these guys on my guitar course and we'd walk to this, like, little pizza shop down the road in between on our breaks.
And as we were walking, there's a group about five or six of us, we were walking together and they were like, hey, Joel, why do Christians get married so young?
And.
And I was like, it's obvious, isn't it? They were like, obvious in what way?
And I was like, well, because a lot of Christians, we don't have sex before marriage. They were like, what? Really? It's like, yeah, really? Okay. And we kept walking for a bit and then they were like, joel, you're not married.
It was like the most. It was just the most fun baptism of fire and.
And all of them still follow me. I'm still friends with loads of them. Talk to loads of them about Jesus and they all watch all the stuff. And it's so interesting. So many of those guys would talk about, like, Christian music and how much they admire how the music all serves another purpose.
It's really interesting. Like from an audible point of view, they can tell that it's not all about, like the guitarist having his moment or the drummer, but you've created a sound that all serves something else.
Just so cool that that's what goes on. So anyway, I studied. I came back to Leicester, I would travel down. And as we started our journey with the Holy Spirit, we had a big transition in church and I became the worship pastor pretty much overnight.
I wasn't really expecting it. I wasn't leading a ton of worship. I was doing a little bit and my voice in theory has broken, but so. But I was. And so I was doing a little bit.
And so I became the worship pastor. And the way I would describe what happened in our environment is everyone that was good left and everyone with a great heart stayed.
But they. But it was pretty rough.
And I've just come out of music college, so I'm thinking, like, I'm getting ready to play stadiums.
And I was in a space where I was leading a team and we were not very good, you know.
And people think now, like lots of people say to me, you just don't get it. You don't know what it was like. I promise you.
I wish I could show you. There are some videos. You find Jacob afterwards, he'll show you the gold. But it was really rough for a long time. And I mean, to put it into perspective, we had a bass player who was so lovely. I love him so, loved him so dearly. But he would go a beat out of time and then lock in for the rest of the song to be that beat out of time.
And it didn't matter what you did. My brother was not coming back.
We had a keys player who had the ego of like, the best session musicians, but not the ability.
And he would get up and he would play keys. But what he would do is he would sound check with the piano on. And then once the sound check finished and the set started, he would turn his piano off and just run pads.
So you would get going. You'd be like, where are you? And let me tell you, this, brother, his eyes were not lifted off that key bed. She couldn't make eye contact. And then we'd get off the stage and he'd be like, smashed it.
And I'm probably 19, 20 at the time, and I'm like, I had loads of people that were like, hey, the last worship pastor said I could lead worship. When am I going to be leading worship? I'm like, go ask him.
So it was.
They were really good people. I didn't have lots of, like, you know, they were lovely people. But there was some serious challenges. And we had this same space, this big room, and we had two drummers, me and another guy.
And what would happen is I would lead worship and he would play drums, and then he would lead worship and I would play drums. And he also did all the media, all the camera stuff and everything else. And I was doing students and youth and other things as well. Okay. And we would lead. I would lead every week. I've pretty much led worship every week for probably seven, eight years.
And. And he then got called to Myanmar to be a missionary out there.
So I remember he was. I mean, he would. So he got up a set of drumsticks and he found Chris, who. I don't know where he is. And he was like, you can do it, bro. You could do it. Go on. Just put him in a drum kit. And they left.
And. And so I was. I had then one drummer who couldn't play drums.
Like, this isn't. He was like, he could do. He used to play a little bit in church when he was, like, 10. And there was no evidence of that at his current age. And. And I remember sitting down with my. So I remember sitting down with Chris and saying, chris, bro, you've got this. Like, I believe in you. Like, here's some YouTube videos. I made him a playlist of music that had loads of drum music on it had, like, paramore in it and all this stuff, and he hated it. I remember him being like, what on earth is this? And I made him listen to all this stuff. And then I went. I remember he was in here, and then I went. And I went down to the other end. I sat down with my dad and I said, I have no faith. He can't do this.
And, like, that's where we started. And he just miraculously got better.
Like. Like, I'm talking to me. It was a miracle. He, like, we just prayed. We were like, God, we need this.
And. And he just, like, overnight got better. He came in every night for a week, for the first week before he played on a Sunday. And he learned his bits and he just kept going and kept going. He kept going and he just got better and better and better. And we would have. I had some friends in London that I would get up to, come and play drums once every kind of six months or something, because we had no one else. And they would come up and they would be like, how has he got so good so quick?
Because the Lord really did supernaturally do something with him. It was unbelievable. And in fact, that guy Chris, who is one of our most amazing worshipers here and one of the best people you'll ever meet, he didn't actually audition for Worship Team. He was sat in the back of my car and we had Bohemian Rhapsody on. I have no idea why. And he was singing along to it with other guys in the car. I turned and I looked at Chris and I was like, yo, bro, you can sing.
And he looked me dead in the eye. He said, no, no, I'm just black.
I looked at Chris and I said, no, no, no, bro, trust me, it ain't always like that. And I tricked him into coming to an audition. He didn't know he was coming to one.
I was like, yo, bro, just quickly jump on stage. Just quickly do something at rehearsal. And he was great. And now he's like our worship pastor. It's, like, amazing.
We hit Covid, and I had probably spent two or three years really, really fighting to build something. And. And when we hit Covid, it got dismantled again, you know, so we. We had some keyboard players. We finally had a couple of drummers. We had, like, a few worship leaders, you know, we had really, really worked hard, and we hit Covid, and then it was just like, all restart again.
And how many of you guys were here yesterday?
Wicked. Okay. So at that point in Covid, we hit Covid, everything kind of shut down for a bit. We kept worshiping and gathering. We kept doing livestream. And we basically had a scenario where a ton of our keyboard players left. So we didn't have any left apart from one guy called Dan who played keys yesterday.
And Dan was not very good.
Like, he was. No, he was really ropey.
And Dan was on team because, like, we were raising people up. But, like, I had. I was like, he's. He's rough. And. And I finally had some really good keys players, and they all moved on. And I rang down and I said, dan, bro, you're all I've got.
I did. And I pretty much said, look, bro, look, I'm being really real with you. I don't know if you would have been my first choice, but you're the choice I have now just to understand me. And Dan is one of the most direct people you've ever met in your life. And we had a good relationship, but he needed to get a lot better.
And we'd set a high standard, and then some people left, and the temptation would have been to lower the bar, but I was like, no, no, Dan, you can do this, but you've got to get a lot better. Are you up for it? And he was, I'll do it. I'm up for it.
And he played keys pretty much every week for the last five years.
And he got better and better and better and better to the point where now I take Dan's places, and everyone's like, who is your keyboard player? He's amazing, but he was really, really ropey. And he went on this big journey with us. And the thing is, I would have Dan over anyone now because of the relationship and because we built. And we've got to go on this journey of trust and longevity that I would never.
You don't get to just have that with lots of people. It's a treasure.
So we came out Covid. We started writing songs.
God started bringing people and people from all over the place. People would just up and move. And I had. I had. I would go on walks every day with the Lord. And I was walking with the Lord, and I had this picture of him. Have any of you guys seen Lord of the Rings?
Yeah, come on. This is Christians. You kind of have to watch it, don't you? And so Lord of the Rings. And the scene is the battle at Helm's Deep, where everyone. The army is about to arrive to invade Helm's Deep. And you've got a bunch of kind of kids and just kind of battered farmers standing, getting ready basically to die.
And then this army of elves come through, these, like, dressed in blue robes, and they arrive, and they have, like, the most impressive march up the building, and they get. And they kind of salute, and they're like, we're here. And they kind of save the day, and they go and they win the fight. And I had this picture as I was walking. I felt the Lord say, I'm going to bring the army now.
And people just started moving.
People started just moving to come and be part of what we were doing.
It was amazing. Jacob. That same week, I had that picture, Jacob, who was playing bass today, he rang me and he said, hey, I'm moving. I'm going to get a Job in a school. School.
Gonna work a couple of days a week in school, and then I'm gonna give the rest of my time for us to write and make music.
I had a couple of guys who. One of.
Excuse me, one of them's here.
They.
They were working at another church.
He rang me. He said, I've just.
Just resigned. Feel like the Lord has called me to come and be here. And they just moved and served. Did loads of our worship stuff for years. Still key parts of our team. Just like different multiple people. And God just started to build his church, and he taught us these lessons along the way.
And, I mean, all I really want to do this afternoon is I want to give you three things that I think the Lord spoke to us about and we've done that has helped us build what we have. And I hope that.
I hope that I've set the context for you to understand that it was not always like this.
I feel like the most privileged and blessed man in the world to see what God has built. And the beautiful thing of going on the journey is you get to find that God builds his church. People ask me all the time, like, hey, what did you do? I promise you this is not false humility. I walked. I spent time with God, and I loved the people we were with. I didn't do much else. He bought them. But there are three things that he's taught us along the journey that I wanted to highlight. And I think these are also three things that I've learned from my dad. And I'm hoping that I can translate these three things as a creative to any of you guys who are pastors. Because I. I think there is sometimes a divide between the creatives and the pastors, and there shouldn't be. We've talked a lot about that. Should be the tightest relationship. And I hope that as a creative, I can speak into those three things. Is that okay?
Okay. So number one is we enter in with praise. We always enter in with praise. We have so few rules here in terms of worship. Like, we don't have song banks. We don't.
I don't check the set lists anymore. Chris does check some of them. But, you know, we are not super heavy on a lot of things. But we do say that we always start upbeat. We always do praise. And for some of you guys, you'll probably know, you come to weeks like this and probably feel tired and want to come and just spend time with the Lord. And you get in and you're. Oh. And then Chris goes, goodbye. Yesterday and you're like, okay, great. Here we go. You know? And we've gone on this journey of high praise, and I want you guys to know it has been a very active and intentional journey. This has not been the young people saying, we want to do high praise all the time. That's actually not what's happened. It has been the pastors of this house saying, we will always enter in with praise. We will always start with Thanksgiving and praise. Always. It's about the only worship rule my dad has that's like, he will die on that hill to the point where you guys will know. When we do revival prayer, we always end with praise. And it's like, the most awkward, uncomfortable thing ever. We have, like, an acoustic guitar, and we do high praise songs that we can't play, that no one can sing and no one could do, and we all just kind of get through it. But there is something that happens and changes and breaks in the room when we praise it. It's a choice, and it's a decision. As someone that is working with, I work with lots of young creatives and leaders, and I work with a lot of Levites, people that want to be in worship and prayer all the time.
And the truth is, often that kind of person can get very introspective and very intense and often can get lost in their own intensity and creativity.
Most. I can't tell you how many worship leaders I meet who are just so bummed out and depressed because they spend so much time looking at themselves.
And we just spent all this time in this floaty thing. And I want to say to you, you as pastors, know this, but you are right when you say that you will not get out of heaviness or burden by sitting and soaking. You praise your way out.
We have to praise. And you, you will lead your teams and your worshipers, and they may not want to, and they have legitimate concerns as to why, like, praise stuff is hard.
Playing at double the tempo is difficult.
Like, technique is hard. Like, sound system things make that difficult. There are challenges.
I'm just also being real. Like, dancing is uncomfortable.
Like, you feel stupid. And if you think you feel silly when you're there, I promise you, you feel way more silly when you're there.
I am not a dancer. I lead worship often with Ayers and Daniel. I look like I'm doing an aerobics workout in the middle.
I watch back videos, and I'm like, oh, it's costly. And so what I'm not saying is, like, just make your people do it and don't have sympathy for them.
What I am saying is they need it. They need the praise.
Love them through it, lead them through it.
My parents don't particularly like dancing. They have led us into this praise thing. You have seen as my dad, when we stood holding my mum's hand like this, feeling uncomfortable as she's like jumping around. They've gone on this journey with us.
It's true.
You have to lead your people into praise. You have to. Don't sacrifice it. We don't sacrifice it when it's one acoustic.
I say to my guys all the time, do not float your way into the presence. Be active, make choices. Lead him with praise. I want to read you. This is a little extract from a book. It's called Glory by Ruth Ward. Heflin says we discovered not only that praise delighted our God and that he desired more of it, but also that he liked it to be louder. Not only does he urge us praise the Lord, he tells us to. To praise with the voice of thanksgiving, the voice of triumph, and with the voice of a psalm, and with the voice of many waters. And as the voice of mighty thunderings, our praise rises until it thunders like Niagara or Livingstone Falls. So great are the rushing sounds of the joining together of voice to voice, it rises further until it is as mighty thunderings, the voice that John heard saying alleluia. For the Lord God Omnipotent reigneth. A voice of praise is always a voice of victory.
That is why the enemy fights praise. You can't praise very long without entering into victory. You can sometimes pray about a matter, and the more you declare the problem and pray around it, the more your faith begins to waver. You see the problem.
You see the problem first, then it becomes bigger than it really is. And finally it becomes overwhelming and. But when you praise, you enter into victory. Praise is entering in, entering into his gates with thanksgiving and into his courts with praise. Praise is not the end. It is the beginning. It is the entering in. Many Pentecostals, charismatic people have learned to enter in through praise, but they have not learned how to continue into worship and further into glory. Praise is entering into his presence. We enter in through gates of praise.
I want to say to you as well as you look and you raise up Levites, I look for the people who praise.
I look for the ones. We look for the ones that come down the front and totally step into God.
There is.
I have still yet to be burned on character with the people that step into what worship Now I early On. But what I'm saying is that it really matters where people worship and where they end up. And if you have people that, no matter what's going into that on in their lives, will come down the front and spend time in the presence of God, you're probably on a good trajectory. And the ones that will come and dance and praise are good people to work with.
Second point, believe in the people you have.
I promise you, you have what you need.
I promise you, the people you need are in your rooms. They are there.
I have always gone off a principle of work with. I will work with what I have, and I will develop what I have. And if I need something that's not there, God will bring it. But if I am not working with what he has already given me, why would he bring it?
So when we need. At the moment, we need some bass players. We are. We're really struggling for bass players. You've seen me and Jake playing a lot. That's because we just need some more bass players. The ones we've got, phenomenal. We just. Lots of rotors. We told you, we worship every night. It just gets more and more right.
And let me tell you, you do not want me and Jake on bass on a regular. We want some proper bass players. So.
And we need bass players. Now. What I am not doing is sitting in the corner going, God, bring me a bass player. I am making that prayer. But I know that he will not bring me a bass player unless I am working with the ones I have.
So we have a group of guys at the moment who we are working with, who we are developing midweek, and see, I win either way. Either they remarkably kind of get phenomenally better like Chris did, or God brings me the one I need, but I have to actively engage with it. Any of my guys will tell you, we. We meet up and we talk, and we have people's names on the wall and the board. And I'm always asking, what are you doing with that person to take them to the next level? How are we progressing, people? Why did that person stop playing? Did someone else get better and we forgot about them? Keep developing your people. Believe in your people. I promise you, miracles can happen. I was. I've talked about this on another Sunday recently. God can divinely impart gifting and skill to people.
He can do that. And also we can work really, really hard and get better and better and better. And when I say believe in your people, I just told you I didn't massively believe in the people I had, but I was like, they're all I've got and I'm gonna go all in with them. Okay? It doesn't mean you have to.
You never know who's going to be the ones that are going to step up.
You know, we, we have had so many different stories. Daniel, who was leading worship this morning, he got saved in our youth. He was in youth for the last two, three years. And he did a talent show. That's how we heard him sing.
And then he came and did vocal auditions and he was really not very good, but he was really nervous. And we all sat and we heard him. We were like, that boy's got something on him. And then he was in the prayer room for a year, just leading worshiping, revival, prayer, doing all these things. He's got better and better and better. But he needed people to believe in him. He needed people to say, you can do this, you've got this. People that were going to disciple him.
I promise you. You have got people in your rooms. I go to so many spaces and they go, we can't do what you do. And then I look at the resource they have and I go, you have way more than we had at the start.
Like, seriously, I go to places and I'm like, I would kill for some of the guys. You've got, you have got, you have got here. Sorry, that wasn't a personal hit on any of my guys.
Hear Jake laughing, I'm serious.
Okay, and then final point, don't lower the bar.
I said to you earlier when we went through Covid, we lost a lot of really good musicians.
I did not have within my means the facilities to maintain that standard with who I currently had, you know, so Dan was not good enough at that point to play.
But I didn't lower the bar and say, dan, it's fine, just stay rubbish.
We're talking as friends, right? I hope this isn't streamed.
I didn't have the ability, you know, I didn't do that.
I said, dan, I believe in you, but you've got to get better.
And I know the temptation in the busyness and the running of church is that we just, we lower the bar and it's interesting, isn't it? We lower the bar and we go, well, the Lord loves it anyway, so it's okay.
But in any other sphere of life, I don't know, you'd have that same attitude for the married brothers in this room if on your first date when you took your wife to be out, I bet you cleaned your car because it Matters.
It matters. It matters. And I just think it's so funny, sometimes in church we go, well, the Lord loves it anyway, so it doesn't matter. It does matter. He is the most important person in your life. We have to give him our best. We have to. Now, our best does not have to be a result.
Everyone's best is different.
I've just been out to Bethel. Their best is a much higher level than mine. Okay, but they're giving their best. What I'm not saying is you have to just make something phenomenal overnight. What I'm saying is don't lower the bar. Bring your best. Believe in people.
Believe in the ones you've got, and you will see them rise.
And that's across the board. That's character, that's gifting, and that's skill. It's all of it. It's their walk with God.
You know, I've been in spaces where it's like, he doesn't really believe in Jesus, but he's a good drummer, so don't do that. It never ends well.
So when I'm saying, don't lower the bar, I'm saying don't lower the bar in any way. What I'm not saying is beat people over the head. It's none of that. It's believing in them and it's calling out the gold and it's getting alongside them and it's going on the journey. And I would say that for you. Do you know in this season where we haven't had worship leaders, do you know what I've done? I've worked hard and gotten much better at playing the bass.
I'm not a bass player, and I don't really have time, but it was. I. I will do that. I talked to all of my worship leaders about.
I want you to not only know your parts, but I want you to know the parts of the all the band. You can do that, you can learn it. You can work hard. It's raising the bar and helping people step up. And I believe that if you take these three things, if you praise, if you believe in the people you have, and if you raise the bar, hold it and bring people up to it, you will see worship transforming your environment. And I believe God will trust you with the Levites.
Why don't you guys stand?
[00:36:55] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Chroma Charge podcast. If you enjoyed this message, you can like and subscribe.
You can also join us in person or online every Sunday at Cromer Church for more information about us, including our ministries. Events, worship and how to donate, visit our website. At Cromer Church.
