Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the Crema Chaj podcast.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: What we're going to do for a few moments is I'm going to ask these guys a few questions about being in a church plant, being in a developing church. And then I think we might just open up the floor and take a few questions for you guys if you'd like for them to answer from their.
Their perspective. So is that all right? We'll keep it nice and nice and light before we go and get some dinner. And then we'll. We'll aim to finish around about Hubbard's 4ish. And then I think we're back here at Hubbard 7.
So you will have met Joel before and Rachel. And this is another Joel, Rachel's husband. So he's the man that swept her off her feet. Okay. So.
And again, just to give you a little bit of background, we planted this church in 2008. Ish, I think it was.
And so my job would have been 10. 10.
Rachel wasn't here at that stage. She didn't show up until about a year in. And Joel, you were here quite early on. How old were you when you first came to the church?
[00:01:35] Speaker C: 19.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: 19.
[00:01:36] Speaker C: Yeah,
[00:01:37] Speaker B: yeah, yeah. And a family brought you along to church?
[00:01:43] Speaker C: It was actually a guy called Stumes. He used to come before.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:48] Speaker C: And because I used to live so far out, the only way in was for me to get a lift with him.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: To get a
[00:01:52] Speaker C: lift. To always serve. Yeah. So I automatically got drafted onto the setup team because.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: Fantastic. So talk to me a little bit about what it was like.
Literally, you've. You've been pulled into church and what was it like coming into a church plant?
How did it feel? What did it look like?
[00:02:14] Speaker C: It was a different experience because I was used to going into church and worshipping, socializing and leaving.
Whereas this time the difference was I couldn't afford to be a spectator. So I said, you know, I got called in because the guy who used to give me a lift, because there was the village I lived in, there was no buses at that time on Sunday morning. So he would come in and serve every morning.
That's just what he'd do. And so I would automatically get drafted into setup. I would then get drafted into serving on the youth team.
We then do stuff after church. So the difference, I would say primarily was that I couldn't afford to be a spectator anymore. Everything was involved. You are hands on with everything.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: So it was a bit like being constrict.
I can't say the word. That's the word. That's the word I was looking for into. Into the service.
[00:03:06] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, you felt more like a part of something bigger because now you weren't just spect it was actually something that you were a part of. So when people were new and they were coming in, you welcome them. Like you were welcoming them into your home or something that you were a part of, as opposed to, oh, this is just a church I go to, or. Yeah, yeah. So it was very different feel in that sense.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: That's one of the things about being part of a church plant is it quickly becomes a family of people.
It's all hands on deck. So you don't really have anybody that's just like a pew fella because you're starting to make church happen. And so it's an incredible environment of busyness and people becoming part of the family. I mean, Joel, you would have seen it as, you know, being even younger and growing up into it.
What was again, church like for you in the early days?
[00:04:08] Speaker D: Yeah, I think I said this. We talked a bit about this on Sunday.
What's really interesting when you're like, so I would have been 10, 11 when we moved to Leicester, and I grew up in church my entire life, but I didn't have any memory of the church I grew up in being formed. So I grew up in something already formed and I loved it. And when we moved to Leicester, I was like, oh, okay.
And I got to see all the behind the scenes where we would talk about what we thought God had said and what we thought God had said he was going to do.
But I actually got to see it all come to fruition. And to some extent, I got to kind of sit in the passenger seat and just go, okay, we've said God's going to come through in all these ways.
Let's see if he does. Like, you know, I got to build my.
My own faith to some extent because I knew of God, but I had never been on an adventure like that. So when we moved to Leicester, I knew that we really did move to Leicester and we didn't have any other options. God had told us what to do, and if he didn't show up, we were unemployed. So I knew there was, you know, I moved into school and I just. I met friends and I told them about church, but I really didn't know whether my friends were going to come to church.
And we didn't really even have anything for them to come to. So it was all kind of like you were believing God and God was teaching me things all along the way. And I guess my part was really just kind of sitting and enjoying it. But what I got to see was, like, I got to know the truth of the fact that we really did only have God. You know, it's really cool when you get on a stage now and you see all this and you're like, oh, yeah, whatever. But there really was those moments where we were sat and we were like, oh, Lord, I really hope you're real.
Like,
[00:05:59] Speaker B: it's true. It's true.
And tell them a little bit about.
Because you did invite your friends and we literally filled the car with teenagers.
[00:06:12] Speaker D: Yeah. Well, if I didn't invite my friends to church, I just had to hang out with my parents.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:06:20] Speaker D: Which.
Yeah, read into that what you will.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: You would have liked to have hang out with your parents because they're quite interesting people,
[00:06:28] Speaker D: obviously, if you could bear in mind they pay my salary whilst.
Yeah, so again, read into that what you will.
So, yeah, I mean, it was.
The fun thing was because. Because we did it as a family.
And to some extent, when you're dreaming with God and one of the most fun things is you have vision of what it could be. But because there's nothing yet, you get to kind of see the boundless goodness of God because it's always better than you think. So inviting your friends into this adventure, you're going on and they're going, what is it? You kind of are like, well, I don't know, but I think we're going to like it.
You know, I don't know, but I think you're a part of it.
And so. And again, some of the stuff Joel said, like, we kind of all had to jump into every bit of it.
And it's really fun being the first people to get to do something because you kind of get to choose how you want it to be. And when you're with all your mates and you're kind of running around doing kind of crazy, chaotic things. I mean, we got ourselves into so much trouble, but we loved it. And I think pretty much, you know, I was really surprised by how many of my friends kind of got saved and was so up for the adventure.
And it was really formative for them, you know, getting to see God come through in the same way. You know, when you turn up to something that's already working, you kind of can be cynical about it, but when it's totally not working and then it becomes what God is calling it to become, you know, that it was only God who did it, because You've seen you have a crack at doing it yourself and it doesn't work.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
And then Rachel, you came as a student, right?
And somebody was just asking me about the coffee and chat. Tell them, tell them a bit about that. Do you remember, can you remember that far back?
[00:08:13] Speaker E: I remember, yeah. A free vanilla latte every Friday. I was like winning.
Yeah. I came along as a student and just I'd grown up in a vineyard church, so it's really easy for me just to find another vineyard and go along to it.
But then very quickly, I think There was about 30 people at a room in the stadium. And I just remember really quickly feeling like this is my family. Like, like not many students I don't think have that privilege of just, you know, you kind of move to a brand new city and everyone you know is, you know, like a student. Right. They're on your course or they're living with you. But very quickly I just found that I had family on a Sunday morning and it was a place that I wanted to bring my friends. I mean it was the easiest thing ever. Like my church are doing free coffee at Starbucks. Do you want to come along on a Friday? And I remember I came along a few times. I think it was just me and a guy called Richard. And then after about four weeks, Steve was like, you know, the point of this is for you to bring your friends. Right. It's not just the three of us having a meeting. I was like, oh, like the penny dropped. Like you definitely had to tell me. And I was like, oh yeah. Then this would be really easy. And I just used to bring loads of my non Christian friends would come. I remember a girl called Stacy. I'm still friends with her. She still talks about coffee and chat. I asked your pastor really hard questions and she visited church a number of times. Some of my friends gave their life to Jesus, just the easiest kind of way together.
And student lunches, we did that as well every single Sunday.
I was telling Joel last night, I always remember like being the church would finish and you would just always have somewhere to go. There'd always be an invitation to go back to somebody's house. It was just family, right? And there was a couple, I always remember Ken and Denise. We used to go to their house and they would cook this like massive roast dinner dessert and then you'd like crash on their sofa and watch like Sunday's X factor for the next three hours. And then on the back of that we'd be going, we'd be leaving. They'd be dropping you home. But they'd be. Before you went, she used to get a carrier bag and open up her cupboard and just put all of the tins from her cupboard into this, like, Sainsbury's bag. And literally, you just. You went home, like, shopping bags full of food.
And no one else in my. Everyone would be like, where have you been all day? I'm like, I've been with my family. Like, I had family in the city. And people wanted to then be part of that because of the generosity of the church.
Yeah. It was just beautiful.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: Let me put a pause. So lots of people ask, how do you disciple people? That's discipleship.
That was happening. It was happening over dinner. It was happening in the care. And you see, when you serve people and there's care for people, you can start to speak into their lives, and there is this mutual relationship. Most discipleship happens over the dinner table.
Jesus goes from meal to meal. How come Jesus was skinny? He's skinny in all the films.
Have you read the Gospels?
He's just going from one meal to another, multiplying food, turning, you know, water into wine.
But that's where he was training and discipling.
Okay, let me. So then at some point, you guys.
Were you youth leaders together or separate?
You were together. That's. That's how come you got married, right? Yeah. You broke all boundaries.
Yeah.
[00:11:46] Speaker C: I don't know how much I can share here.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:11:50] Speaker C: yeah.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: Don't be too honest.
[00:11:54] Speaker C: I think I was part of the youth team before Rachel came to be a part of the youth team. And then Rachel joined. And then, of course, you know, Rachel led the youth team, and I did it alongside her. But I think the beauty of the whole thing was that before Rachel and I even got together, there was this joining of values between the two of us that no matter what it was, whether it was kids, youth, whatever, outreach, which we did end up doing together as well, just out in Leicester, it just. It was easier to flow because actually you were doing it with someone that you shared so many core values with, that someone. Someone that you actually served with, someone who you weren't just going to church for. Like I said earlier, being that spectator, you were actually doing wherever whatever was needed, whatever was required. And because you did that together, no matter what it was, it was just having fun doing it together.
[00:12:50] Speaker E: The biggest thing that it was just so fun. Like, I can't even. I remember there was a time where we were like, okay, some of my story, but I won't share it all, but I stepped out of leadership for a year or so just to sort some things in my life. And I remember, like, just being like, I just want to go on the streets on a Saturday night and just, let's just go and feed the poor. Like, let's just go and do some outreach. So a bunch of us would literally, like, we'd go out, out, out. Like, we'd go dancing in the clubs. We love Jesus, but we went dancing in the clubs. And then we'd be like, right, well, it's 1:00am let's go to Mackie's and let's go and feed the poor. And then we literally would just go and feed. And then, like, the group just grew. There was probably 20 of us and we had the most fun just laughing and doing ridiculous. I mean, we don't think the barbers really ever knew fully what we were up to, but we just had.
We were like, oh, Steve, there's just a few receipts on your desk because we just spent.
We just bought the whole of Leicester and Mackie's. But we know we just had, like, we just had fun. We saw people come to know Jesus. We pray for people on the street corner. We made tons of mistakes, but we learned along the way. We had loads of friends. And then all of our non Christian friends wanted to come and be a part of it. Even though they didn't really understand what was going on. It was just. Yeah, I think that's how we got together.
Flirting and fun in ministry.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: And, you know, sometimes it's best not to know exactly what people are doing.
Okay. Plausible deniability.
And in the midst of releasing people, things don't always work out how you'd hoped.
I remember two stories, two van stories. One, Joel was moving. We had three transit vans at one point. We
[00:14:41] Speaker C: don't have to talk
[00:14:42] Speaker B: about it. To move all our equipment because we didn't have a building. And I remember getting the message, the office is not as secure as it used to be.
And that was because Joel had driven through the front door of the van and the bricks were like a pile of rubble.
Now, just so you know, I'm not just getting a job. We also had a church minibus that we could transport the youth in.
And Rachel had to make a call because it was a high top.
And she had to mention to me, it's no longer a high top. We've got an open top.
Okay. It
[00:15:23] Speaker E: needed a sunroof. Seriously,
[00:15:27] Speaker B: what I.
And I'm saying this because you release people and these things happen.
[00:15:34] Speaker C: We actually connected on our ability to drive vans.
[00:15:37] Speaker B: Yes.
And probably the names on the insurance company claims.
But what I'm. You know, we can get to a place where we're so, oh, my goodness, nothing must go wrong.
Things go wrong here all the time.
Yeah. And, you know, we try to mitigate the risk, but as you release people into ministry, it never goes quite as you planned.
And you see, the beautiful thing about church planting is that you've not written all the rules and regulations yet, and it's all still forming.
It's a story unfolding.
And in amidst all these things, these are the stories you tell for the rest of your life, you know, and the great thing is, it wasn't their van or their minibus.
It was mine.
It was the church. But it's part of the unfolding story of the adventure of serving Jesus because it's what the disciples would have told, those kind of stories. Do you remember when we forgot the bread, you know, or when Peter was on the water and he sunk? You know, it's those stories of taking the journey that create the community.
Let me ask you, and then we'll take some questions.
Joel, what was, if you look back, what was one of the single most important things that you experienced in church to get here now where you are now?
So think about what was one of the things that happened in church or you were allowed to be part of in church that has got you here now?
I've just dropped that on you, and I'm going to ask you guys the same question.
Anything. You look back and you go, I'm so pleased that happened.
[00:17:43] Speaker D: I mean, honestly, probably I look back now and I'm so pleased that probably from my teens all the way up till now, I kind of have never missed a Sunday.
I've always pretty much been the first in the building because there were things to do.
And my.
My understanding of how you do the Christian walk was that I actually am involved.
Like, it's a partnership with me and God, and so I have something to contribute. And so whether it was the early morning setup, whether it was leading worship or playing, all the things that go on, I think as I get older, I just feel really grateful that I don't have any grid outside of going to church every week.
Loving Jesus, being part of community, being part of it, actually serving, like, I just don't. I can't ever see a day where that's not just a foundational part of being a believer, you know, whether you're five or you're 90.
And I think being part of this community specifically. I think as I hang out with people, I'm like, oh, that's maybe that's not as normal as I thought. Like, that it doesn't even compute to me that we would be somewhere and not go to church or not be part of a community and not be engaged in something. And I kind of am also, like, I mean, being a Christian is just so much more complicated if you don't do that.
Like, so many, so many people are talking about all these kind of problems and things, and I'm kind of looking and going. I actually think it's kind of simple. I think you're missing one of the big parts of this is being part of church and community and actually building something with people that's not about you.
It, like, changes your life. And I think that's the thing that people, you know, if I look at what marked me and if I look now at something, like a lot of the places I'm going now, people are like, hey, you're like, what's really unusual is you're a local church person. And I'm like, what? I'm like, I just go to church on Sunday. That's unusual. Like, but it. But that's not even just. That's for the regular believer. Like, how many people do you know in church that come like once a month and have other things on Sundays? And I was just never raised like that, and I just don't really have a grid for it. And it's probably one of the things I'm the most grateful for, because all my friends that go away from that all get themselves into messes and holes that they all put to other things. But it's always the one thing, right? It's like, are you gathering with, like, minded believers and worshiping Jesus every week? Is it? Does your week start there? Is your week built around that? Is the place you live built around that? Like, is your life built around the call first to him? Which does need some structure? I know the world doesn't love that, but we do need some structure and some yeses and nos, you know, so
[00:20:46] Speaker B: go on, Rachel.
[00:20:47] Speaker E: So good. Joel.
Yeah.
I just think so many of my friends went to university and didn't find a church and so sad that they're not following the Lord anymore. It's just. Yeah, I don't think we can take for granted just that. I think, I mean, there's lots like that I'm so, so grateful for from. From this church and from all the Lord has done. But I think one of the key things that is undeniable in my walk with Jesus is having moms and dads and leaders who would speak really honestly into my life.
I think I was desperate for the real thing, for someone to just tell me, like, you're a mess in this area and you're great in this area.
I remember so often, I mean, you've got tons of stories with Bob and Linda, who are incredible parents in the church, but I think even with Steve and Juliet, you know, I remember being really frustrated at, you know, there's nothing for students on campus. Like, there's no small groups. I can't believe that you'd think there'd be an event. Like, it's time, Steve. I think you need to do this and just totally flipping it. Well, go on then.
Like, go on then.
Start a small, you know, just that empower. Like, he wasn't put off by my frustration. And you know how I thought I knew how to run church at 19? Because we all do, right? Like, but actually he was able to hear the frustration and go, hey, you probably.
That could be a dream. Like, that's, that's a vision. Like, I'm going to empower you to go and do that, gather some people, get some pizza, invite the Holy Spirit, and either he shows up or he doesn't. Like, just that empowering to stand on your own two feet, but then also having, hey, there's this in your life we've seen. Hey, maybe, you know, when you shout at that leader, you probably should have a better attitude.
My encounter year was I. Yeah, I.
I encountered the Lord a lot on the encounter year, and I was discipled a lot and I learned a lot by leaders who would speak into my life. Yeah,
[00:22:47] Speaker B: tell them, Tell them about the. Your kitchen experience. Making coffee.
[00:22:51] Speaker E: Gosh, this is just a panel of
[00:22:54] Speaker B: memories.
This is what?
[00:22:56] Speaker E: No,
[00:22:57] Speaker B: this is
[00:22:57] Speaker E: true. Yeah, I was on the. We called it discipleship year then, and there was a leaders meeting quite early on that we got to go to, you know, discipleship years. We get to go to the leaders meeting, like, woohoo. We're gonna just soak and we're gonna get prayed for and we're gonna get to lead.
And I was in the back making coffee for like a long time and then clearing up the coffee and then putting out fresh coffee. And I wasn't very happy about this. I just remember moaning. It was at the football stadium. We were in this little cafe, the little bar, and I was just saying to my friend, this is so unfair. Can't believe that I'M like, back here making coffee when they're all out worshipping. I'm the one giving a year up for the church. Seriously, this is what I was saying. And, you know, when you hear somebody, like, behind you, you, like, sense that they're there.
And I turned around and I saw one of the pastors at the time, Mike Newport. He was standing there, just kind of arms folded, listening. And you'd think at that point, like, I'd get embarrassed and just, you know, apologize. I, like, doubled down. Yeah. I'm pleased that you're here, Mike. Actually, I've got a bone to pick with you. Like, why are we.
Why are we back here making the coffee when they're all out there worshiping rah, rah, rah. He was like, sounds like you need to learn what worship really is.
Stabbed to the heart.
But it was those conversations, like, I did. I wanted the real thing. Like, I wanted somebody to actually get in my face. And, you know, I could have left the church, but I wanted to be discipled. I actually wanted someone to tell me, mum and dad, tell me what I need to learn, how I can go deeper with. With the Lord, how I can look differently.
So, yeah,
[00:24:31] Speaker B: brilliant. I love it. Go on job.
[00:24:36] Speaker C: I happily served. I never once complained. So.
I think that.
Can
[00:24:49] Speaker B: I just say something? Hold it, Joe. Hold it, Joe. Can I just say something?
We had a very godly man in our church who went to Joel's kind of stag weekend.
Okay.
Just before they got married. And on the Monday he got back, he phoned me and he said, steve, this is our godly man.
I think they're here. He says, I. I need to confess.
I've been away at the weekend on this stag weekend, and they caused me to swear.
I just need to confess this.
So, again, discipleship.
Sorry, Joel, carry on. This is just my revenge of 20 years. Now, go on, keep going.
[00:25:50] Speaker C: Thanks, Steve.
I think I would say the biggest takeaway for me was I'm so glad now, looking back, that I actually trusted the people that went ahead of me. And I say that with a lot of thought. And I'll tell you why. It's because, like Rachel, I actually had many moments of frustration.
Rachel's just a lot more outspoken than I am. I'm very Indian in that things could happen to me and I'll just keep it within me and just be really passive about it.
Which also coincidentally happens to be very British.
And I think.
The thing is, ultimately, there's a lot of times you grit your teeth and you do the thing regardless of what has been asked of you. And so whenever I was asked to do something, sometimes I was just like, this is absolutely not what I signed up for. This isn't exactly what it looks like for me to be doing this. Like, we had something called a poo stick, a bob stick, make of that what you will, okay? Whenever toilets got blocked, all hands on board.
And I don't remember in my quiet time with the Lord when I was speaking in tongues that I'd be holding a poo stick. The point. The point I'm trying to make is I think there's so many times in this journey of being discipled that you just do nothing but close your eyes and you say, I'm just going to trust the person ahead of me because they've gone to places I haven't, and they're going to places where I want to be, and I'm just going to follow them. And you just follow them, and you don't know what it looks like. And there's so many times.
There's so many curveballs that come your way, or there's so many times that they're saying, oh, by the way, Joel, we're going to do this new thing where, you know, I'll use youth as an example. We're now at 20 youth. We're going to try this new idea that's going to bring in more people from the estate and more people from schools. We're going to go into schools and I'm just like, why we've got such a good thing set up. Why try and ruin a new thing or a good thing? And we take a new risk. Just when you get comfortable and you'd close your eyes and you say that thing again, I'm just gonna trust you. And you did, and you went ahead with it and you just did it. And it always paid off. It always paid off. And speaking of paid off, if I may, there's one story I just want to say at the back of Rachel saying her friend Stacy came along to this thing that we had called Coffee and Chat.
Now, unfortunately, not all of Rachel's friends that came along to Coffee and Chat got saved. However, we got to meet Stacy's family and got to meet her dad.
And Stacy's dad, sadly, had cancer at the time that we became friends with him.
Now, Stacy never gave her life to Jesus, but I remember a phone call with a man on the other end of the phone, this man in absolute pieces, in tears, who just happened to give his life to Jesus. Moments before he died.
Because Stacy. It all started with Stacy coming to coffee and chat, Rachel inviting her, and that having a ripple effect down the line. And so the point I'm trying to make is sometimes you don't see the payoff immediately, but you close your eyes, you trust, and you just go for it. And the Lord just makes it, makes it work. He makes your path straight.
[00:29:17] Speaker B: And the thing I love about these three is they've served their socks off, which has made them the men and women they are now.
They invested in the kingdom of God.
And the Lord has now anointed them to be leaders and men and women he can trust with the flock of the church. What?
What did I say?
Sorry,
[00:29:46] Speaker E: 18.
[00:29:47] Speaker B: Oh, I didn't hear that. I mean, I did. Who was that? John, Are you sure?
Okay. Okay. Are there. Do we have another microphone? We've got. We've got 15 minutes. Let's take a few questions.
Where? Oh, yeah, there. Do any of you have some questions you want to ask?
Fire away. Yep, you got one there. Gone.
[00:30:15] Speaker F: Hi, I wanted to ask Joel Barber specifically, but I feel like all of you guys might be able to answer this.
What is it like for so long, building a history together, doing ministry together from the ground up and all that you guys are doing with family?
What is it like being the, you know, Steve and Juliet, being your mum and dad and being part of the church? I was wondering. You touched on that a little bit at the beginning, but I'd love to hear and maybe from you guys as well, like as a family, married couple and that dynamic and how that's. How's that worked?
[00:30:57] Speaker D: Well, I mean, they're in the room, so.
I've never known anything different, which I'm grateful for. And I think so often we divide stuff. So we go, it's family, it's ministry, it's work.
And really, I don't think the divide's that helpful because I want Jesus to be king in all of them, and I want them to all be unto him.
And really, actually, if I have family as a separate thing to ministry, I'm gonna get myself into trouble. And long term, that doesn't work. I know. I've seen that. I think one of the interesting things growing up in church is you kind of are a professional people watcher. You just watch people throughout the life of church and you see things you like and things you don't, you know.
So I think the blessing of my life has been that it's never been separate.
And I think you can make.
There are positives and there are negatives. Like, there are challenges to doing, you know, working or doing life with family all the time. And there's really great things about it.
And I kind of think it's. To me, it's no different to being a leader, actually. Like, sometimes when you're a leader, there are things that are positives and there are things that are negatives. Oh, I don't get to do that. Or like, I don't get freedom there in that way because I'm a leader. But actually it's a privilege.
And the truth is, doing ministry with family is a privilege.
And you actually have to make the choice that I'm going to see it as a privilege because it is a privilege. There might be things that are different for me to other people that are harder, but there's lots of things that are amazing.
And I just think that's a privilege. And I think as you grow up, like I said, our people watch. And seeing people's kids grow up in church and they have that same synonymous thing, you realize more what a privilege it is. You know, I think you look and you go, my favorite thing ever is when I see a kid in church say, do you know who my dad is? When they're trying to get away with something?
And I'm like, I just feel like it's has to be. Which
[00:33:17] Speaker E: I think you said as well,
[00:33:19] Speaker D: all the time.
And I think so often we can sit in that end of the pendulum, but then call it all the challenges. You know, I honestly remember I went to a. It was like a Young Leaders Day thing. I didn't really know what it was. And it ended up being like some kind of support group for pastors, kids. I had no idea. So I'm like sat around this table of everyone going through their trauma and.
And I was like, I don't know what to say when it gets to me because I have no idea what they're talking about.
Because actually it's been fun and it's been a privilege, but I think it's vice versa. You have to see it as a privilege. You have to be willing to serve.
And I kind of said at the start of my journey, like my.
To me, it's a privilege to serve my parents. I don't see lots of that, but I see loads of it in the Bible. So I want to serve my parents and that to be my story. And I think that's been a grounding thing. So I think you have to ground yourself in humility. There's good moments and there's bad moments, but it's your choice whether you see it as a privilege or not. That would be my.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: There you go over there.
There's more in there. Thanks.
[00:34:44] Speaker G: There's the adage that says 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people.
And you are definitely Steve interviewing some of the 20% there.
What do you do about engaging more of the 80% to get it down to 75, 25 or 70? 30.
[00:35:07] Speaker C: I.
I think that that's a really good question. I think one of the things we keep.
There's a theme here, isn't there? We just had fun together every single time. There is. And we'd almost get told off if we did something on our own because we had to get a team or we had to get someone to do it alongside us. So what's the point doing it on your own? A, it's not less fun, and B, it's like you get more people involved. I remember someone actually came to church for the first time and one of the team talked to them about joining a team and this was their first time in church.
And the person that had brought them along was like, bit taken aback, like, what are you doing?
And it's easy to argue that we want the person to feel comfortable first, but I would argue that actually the best way to make someone feel comfortable is to make them feel part of something.
And genuinely, what would happen is a lot of times so many people would come into church and like I said earlier, because we were serving, you felt a part like, this is my house. You're coming into my house. I'm going to make you feel like a welcome guest.
And the best way for you to feel like a welcome guest is if you actually become a part of this. And the best way for you to be a part of this is to do the thing with us. And. And so one of the things we would do. I'll give you an example. I used to oversee the car parking in here. I just wanted to make it a fun place to hang out. So come rain or shine, we would get bacon butties in the morning, people would come in, we would have bacon sandwiches, then we'd go out and we would have music blaring out from our phones. We'd have radio sets and we'd just crack jokes with each other over the radio, say silly things.
And we actually had one or two really older people quit over that. But the point now, hold. It gets better. Okay, look, the point is we filtered out.
No, no, hold on, let me.
Is this going to be edited.
I think the thing to remember is when you will attract your own people. Okay. And you don't have to attract everyone and you don't have to please everyone. And I learned that a little bit while doing the car parking. I was just like, there's some people that I'm not gonna like the way I'm just cracking jokes over the radio. And they left. But there was a whole lot of people who did like it. And for every one person that left, there was at least three other people who wanted to be a part of that. And so
[00:37:48] Speaker D: I.
Yeah, yeah, we have a Freedom center if anyone wants to sign up.
I think we were actually just talking about this. I think we have a very, very intentional like doing culture. I don't think we've.
Well, it's a hard work culture and it's a serving culture. And I think what we've probably some. I think this is probably unique to us in the sense of if you look at everyone on SLT or you look at anyone in the environment, most of us are like doing people more. You know, we want tasks, we want to tick things off. So we've definitely done church in a way that's like, well, we are doing people, so we do church by doing things right. I know that sounds kind of bizarre and I think what I've probably something that I've noticed that we have been quite intentional. But I remember when I first started here and if I was doing something alone, you would be like, why are you doing that alone? So I would walk in and be like, I don't know, I needed set something up. And especially for me, like, in a music world, like, there actually aren't that many people that can do it. Normally people are annoying. Like, normally having more people around, I'm like, you're in the way.
But me being honest, I'm a doing person.
But like, we've set a culture from the ground up that's like. So for all the encounters, they're like, I don't know, second week into doing their encounter year and 90% of what I'm doing at the moment is walking around going, why are you doing that on your own? Where's everyone else? Like, where are the people you asked? Did you ask anyone show me your phone? Did you ask anyone to come do this with you? And like, and people will often with me be like, hey, can I get a coffee? And I'll be like, no, but you can come help me clear the storeroom. I'll talk to you whilst I Do it. So like we would have a really. But I think that's to do with who we all are. So I kind of am like, I think you have to be who you are, but I think there is something about, from, from the ground up, like when you come into the doors of this building, you know that you're gonna have to be part of something whether you like it or not.
Which, which is our point of connection, which I think is a strength.
But it's, it feels intentional all the way through, if that makes sense. And I think, I think that is how we've engaged more people. So we, we do it through teams or we do it through all these things, but we do it because we want people to do things with us, because that's how we are.
[00:40:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
Rachel, can you just put it nice and pastorally, the personal friend of Jesus.
[00:40:18] Speaker E: Personal friend,
[00:40:19] Speaker B: personal invite. I'm
[00:40:20] Speaker E: actually known as a savage pastor amongst these two.
No, that was great, Joe. I think, yeah, I think that both Joel's were great.
[00:40:32] Speaker B: What do we say to people about everyone's opinion? Personal guest of Jesus.
[00:40:36] Speaker E: Yeah. So I mean Steve has. I can't do it better than you, Steve. But Steve, everyone in this culture knows the Steve story of like if King Charles was to call us up and say, you know, I've got someone coming on Sunday, they're going to come and visit church, we would throw out the red carpet, right? We'd make sure, you know, the coffee machine was, you know, ready, piping hot. We'd make sure they had the best seat in the house. We'd make sure, you know, no one weird was going to come and minister to, to them, you know, the best, you know, we would make sure that they were kind of in the demon free zone and you know, just joking, that's not a thing.
We would make sure we did everything to love them so well. How much more if Jesus was to personally send every person on a Sunday morning. And that is something ingrained in us that whoever walks through the door on a Sunday or in youth or, or into the baby's room, whatever mum comes in, they have been sent by Jesus Christ to encounter his love that morning. And so we're going to love them well. We're going to make sure they're in the presence of the Lord. We're going to invite them into the family so that they don't have to spectate for three weeks before you're in. You don't even have to be, you know, freed up and put together. Jesus just said to Peter like come follow me and we'll get healed up on the mission. And if we wait for everybody to be healed up, then we, you know, we're going to be waiting a long time actually on the journey of sanctification. We, we fix our eyes on Jesus, not on our own circumstances. And we find that he is everything and he is the one that we build for and we give our lives to. And actually if people can see that early on, it's way better.
[00:42:20] Speaker B: Have you got, have you got another one? Do we have another question?
There's one over there.
[00:42:32] Speaker H: Yeah, just maybe picking up from the previous, the first question around what it was like doing ministry as family. Maybe for you, Steve, what was it like in raising, releasing Joel? I mean obviously a lot of time for church. It's like our kids best assets in some ways that can be seen as favoritism. Or are you platforming too early? How did you almost raise and release that and bring that up for Joel? How was the church responding to that? And yeah, almost. And how do you protect them from some of the, in those early years of planting some of the difficulties that come with church? How do you keep that sense of there? Joel, he loves the church. He's got a real passion for it. Imagine there was some of that job had to be protected as well.
[00:43:14] Speaker B: I don't think we did protect them in the sense of we were very honest.
The things that were happening and the things that were going on. They saw our frustrations, they saw us laugh and they saw us cry. So we, I don't remember, you know, I mean, we wouldn't give full details of everything that was going on, but they would see the tensions. So I.
[00:43:39] Speaker D: And we knew.
[00:43:41] Speaker B: And you do?
[00:43:41] Speaker D: Yes. I think the worst thing is trying to hide something that your kids already know.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:43:46] Speaker D: so.
[00:43:47] Speaker B: Yeah, so.
And then look, people come and go in church.
Family are always with you.
And we've always said a God, family, church.
When you get family and church around the wrong way, things start to go wrong.
When the church comes before the family, when actually Paul talks about leaders being good husbands or wives and having their households in order. I don't think he's talking about control.
I think he's talking about the right order, that what happens in our household is a reflection of our relationship with God.
And if we're walking with him in our household, we are qualified to lead his house.
And so the Christian we are at home should be the Christian we are in church.
And so where church brings pressures, but ultimately it's his church, not My church.
And if his church falls to bits, it's his responsibility. I cannot hold the church together. I cannot keep people in the church. I've never tried to keep people in the church. I can only follow him and walk with him.
And my prayer is as a church leader. Sometimes I'll turn around and there's a few people following because they love him and they love his presence.
And to the degree we've succeeded or, you know, sometimes not succeeded in our family, is the degree of health in our Christian walk, I would believe. Does that make sense?
And so I think our families are the most important gift that God has given us and the most incredible resource in the church.
Because if our family is healthy, other families will become healthy because hopefully they'll copy what we are doing. And to the degree our family isn't healthy and we're not perfect, we've got loads of things to work on.
Is the degree that the Holy Spirit can lead the whole church, we can get because we're lifelong learners.
We're on a journey. He's changing us all the time.
And so that's what we've tried to do.
Have we got it right all the time? Of course not. Do we sometimes row? Of course we do.
We sometimes disappoint each other? Of course we do. That's family.
That's family. But we are family and we will stick by each other throughout whatever God leads us into and whatever the world throws at us. And that. That. That's. I mean, is that fair?
[00:47:05] Speaker E: Yeah, I just. I wanted to also just say the re the reason, like Steve and Juliet are such incredible leaders. Close your ears. Steve and Juliet, because you're in the room. But they're such incredible leaders because they're so empowering. So this thing that sometimes you're talking about, there are, well, you know, favoritism or whatever. When there's always a space for you to be empowered, that just doesn't happen because it's like, well, this person is called to this thing. But what's the Lord said to you? Go and do that? It's the constant that this. Every single person gets to play. Every person has a call on their life for the Lord. And we just feel like we've had the privilege of sitting front row to pastors and mums and dads who are so releasing and so, so empowering that whatever the Lord has said for you to go and do, go and do it and God will show up or he doesn't. And I think that is so. That's just family again. It's, you know, I love when Paul talks to Timothy about his. Like, it's his spiritual son. And we totally feel like that in. In this family. We've kind of been drafted into the family of God here because there's. There's always a role for you. There's always that empowering element where it's whatever God says, you can go and do it, just go and do it. And actually, you can come home if it fails, and we'll just try again together. It's just that encouraging, empowering, releasing. These guys are absolutely experts at it, and we just feel like we've been privileged to be front row to that over the last 17 years. Yeah.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: One of the interesting things, things about having an environment that empowers people to do the things God has called them to do is you don't often have to say no in the sense people. Lots of people come to you, say, can I do this? Can I do that now?
And I'll often say, well, go give it a go.
And then they'll look at me to make it work, and I'll go, no, I can't do that.
I can't hand you my credit card.
But if God is saying to go do it, go do it.
And as he blesses what you're doing, we will bless it.
But I'm waiting to see what will God do, and then we'll bless it.
I don't know if, yeah, Chris is here. I remember one of the guys. I know the family's here. I just don't know if Chris is here.
He came and he said, the Lord's told me where to start a refugee ministry. And I said, sure, go and give it a go. I never thought anything would happen.
I just.
But a year later, there was 150 refugees eating and being ministered to two.
And I was, that's amazing. I didn't make it happen. I didn't give him my. Well, now I did give him a credit card in the sense that we paid for some of the food, but not initially. He paid for the food to start off with, and it just started growing, and I'm like, oh, my goodness, there's no way Chris can afford to pay for this.
You know, we've got to do this. And I. And I remember, you know, one Christmas, they did they. I mean, they had Father Christmas here because the refugees didn't know who Father Christmas was. And they had all this. And I'm going, how did this happen?
This isn't what I would have done. This isn't how I would have done it, but God has blessed this, and it was just a really wonderful thing.
And so I rarely say no to people. I mean, they might say, can I sing in the worship band? And I'm going to go, well, probably not, unless you can get past these guys.
But again, it's give me a place. I'm not saying yes to that. What I'm saying, if God has told you to do something, do it.
And I might be able to give you some pointers and I might be able to help you at some point. But first I want to see you go and do it, and I want to see the favor of God upon what you're doing. And when we see the favour of God upon what you're doing, we will bless it. And that would be to tend. Is that fair?
That would be what I would tend to do. So that's how we would function here. So the answer is normally yes.
Sometimes it's weight, but normally it's yes. Go, give it a go. And then let's see what God does, and then we'll bless what he does.
It's Hubbard's foot. Why don't you. Why don't you.
Yes. Stand up. Come on, stand up. I want us to. But.
I love some of the family questions, actually.
If you're here kind of with family, kind of make sure you're all close to each other. Okay. Gone. Swivel round.
Yeah, Come on, get. Get close to family. Gone around. Gone. Move around a little bit.
Okay.
And. And, you know, some of you might feel like I'm adopted family in the sense that, you know, that's what Rachel and Joel said. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're two. Two brothers and they lead. Both are leading churches.
I love this. Okay. And you might. So you might feel like I'm kind of adopted family. You know, this family feels like my family. You can move to them as well if they push you away. You were wrong. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
And we're going to pray for you.
Okay.
No, in fact, gone. Are you guys gone?
[00:53:04] Speaker E: Jesus, we thank you that you're here. We thank you for your presence. Lord God, we thank you for the generational blessing amongst families. Lord God, we thank you that you never just call one that. The kingdom is always multiplication.
The kingdom is always about reproducing. It's always about more fruit, more disciples, more people. And, Lord, we just ask for a special anointing, a special blessing on these families who have said yes, Lord, for the generations who have said yes.
Lord, we thank you that your promise is that you will bless those for a hundred generations who have gone after righteousness, gone after your kingdom.
And so, Lord, we just ask, just stretch out your hands to these ones, guys. The rest of us, just stretch out your hands to the families. Lord, we ask for your favor and for your blessing and for your increase upon them.
That, Lord, they would inherit sons and daughters in the spirit. That Lord, you would bring saints and angels around them to lift up their hands. And that, Lord, the legacy that they're leaving would last for hundreds of generations.
Pour out your spirit right now. Lord, we can't do this without you.
So would you come afresh?
Thank you, Lord.
[00:54:28] Speaker D: Lord, I thank you that unity was your idea.
Lord, would you unite us as the church together, but internally, I pray that you would anoint houses of worship and your places all across the UK that you would be the center and we wouldn't be squabbling families. We would be united families under the banner of Jesus that could do what you need us to do, God, that you would pull us together and that as a family we would be so much better than on our own. Lord, mobilize us that we might be fully yours and that we might see the things you've promised over our houses. And God, I just pray you would anoint people all across these churches to fully step into what they're called to. And Lord, sometimes what we've looked outside of our church is for the solution.
God, we know that you have given us everything we need. You promised that.
Lord, I pray that you would highlight to us and you'd help us just figure out how to do this, to do relationship your way. You are God the father for a reason.
Lord, we thank you for your hand over our churches. We pray you would anoint and bless us as we step into the fullness of what you've promised. God, we will not settle for anything less than you and you fully.
We love you, Lord.
[00:55:55] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Chroma Church podcast. If you enjoyed this message, you can like and subscribe. You can also join us in person or online every Sunday at Cromer Church. For more information about us, including our ministries, events, worship and how to donate, visit our website at Cromer Church.
